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Single Tube PAS* Linestage

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:37 am
by Geek
* = or any other linestage ;)

Hi Folks,

Haven't posted a recent project, so I'll post another commission here.

Goal: a single tube linestage for the PAS2/3/3x preamplifier. Cannot infringe on I.P. or topology of the Curcio single tube pre.

Challenge: Getting gain control and high performance out of a single tube.

Solution: Hybrid anode-mu-follower.

With an anode follower, the gain will float about on varying driving and load impedances. So, that had to be isolated.

I'm still on a bit of a hybrid-mu kick (especially since the PAS power supply is about as strong as a housefly), and the source follower operates very well at low currents, like a 12AX7/5751/6SL7 like, so that was the top stage as a natural choice.

But rather than taking the feedback from the output, I contained it before the output follower. I found an advantage for this for a few reasons:

- Better isolation with heavy loads (which would make the gain go up), as found in many cheaper SS amps.
- Less chance of becoming an oscillator with non-resistive lods.
- Noise from the load wasn't coupled back into the grid circuit.

Anode followers are kind of like an op-amp, in that the gain varies from the ration of the grid resistor to anode FB resistor. Better performance and sonics is had from a lower grid resistor, but at the expence of becoming increasingly difficult to drive.

I settled on 100K for the grid resitor. Not too hard of a load to drive, but when using a volume control up front, strange things happened and the gain wasn't linear, nor the frequency response. So, we needed to isolate that too. A source follower seemed a logical choise.... NOT!

The source follower was phenomenally noisy. STP2NK60Z was noisy, but not near as bad as an IRF-anything :(

After chatting with a colleague and getting tips on reducing noise, I was able to lower it, but not eliminate it. For the heck of it, I tossed in a bipolar. The noise was gone!

That led to the development of this baby:

Image

A neat thing about the fixed-bias nature of this, is you can swap in a 12AX7 instead and not have the DC voltages shift all over the place (it doesn't sound too bad, either). With the anode follower fixing the gain, the higher gain tube doesn't affect the overall gain of the circuit. F3 changes a bit due to Cmiller, but is mostly negated by the large, unbypassed cathode resistor.

As long as the B+ stays in a range where the zener diodes work, gain, waveform performance and to my ear, sonics, aren't affected by even large B+ swings. Positive side effect of the mu-follower arrangement.

Another side effect that I see as a positive (many might see as a negative), is the topology makes it rather immune to tube rolling. Your RCA or Philips cheapie will sound the same as a Telefunken or Mullard in this.

Forgot to mention about Ccomp - it was chosen for best square wave... maybe a little sharp even on the leading edge (as in a nipple, not railroad spike). This too, once chosen, rolling tubes has little effect on the waveform.

Cheers!

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:39 am
by dcgillespie
A very neat design Gregg. In cleaning up the square wave, did you try any appropriately sized cap across the cathode resistor? With your input buffer, there is no issue to using a comp cap across the grid resistor as you have, but sometimes providing a partial bypass at the cathode helps also. Thanks for giving us the benefit of your work!

Dave

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:35 pm
by Geek
Hi Dave,

Indeed I did!

There were some negative side effects to such, like increased noise and circuit instability into some (reactive) loads that cancelled any positive effect.

Cheers!

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:50 am
by Geek
PCB's came in and I'm listening to it now. I'm impressed, as it sounds a heckuva lot better than on the breadboard [:)

Gain set at 2.5. Very low noise, very three dimensional (using a Tung-Sol 12SL7 right now). Detailed and punchy as typical of the anode follower topology.

Cheers!

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 5:32 am
by Shannon Parks
Geek wrote:PCB's came in and I'm listening to it now. I'm impressed, as it sounds a heckuva lot better than on the breadboard [:)


I breadboard - no, flying wired - some 2SK170s this weekend for a MC conversion on the Budgie. I just had to listen to my Denon DL-103. I was shocked it didn't oscillate on me. I'd be lost without my PCBs. Post some pics when you get the chance!

Geek wrote:Gain set at 2.5. Very low noise, very three dimensional (using a Tung-Sol 12SL7 right now). Detailed and punchy as typical of the anode follower topology.


I modded the line stage at the same time to a traditional anode follower scheme, with a 330k feedback and a 100k input. I must say this is an under-appreciated circuit for preamplifier use. It has adjustable gain, low output Z, and most importantly it has the sound. I think "detailed and punchy" is a perfect description.

Shannon

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 4:18 pm
by Geek
separks wrote:I must say this is an under-appreciated circuit for preamplifier use.


Absolutely!

There's a LOT of great sounding tubes that have just far too much gain for a line stage (like the *SL7). Anode follower topology can bring them down to linestage gain territory, if used right :))

separks wrote:Post some pics when you get the chance!


Here's one, right after assembly:
Image

I used metal film for the 4.7Meg gate resistor and metal oxide for the 100K series resistor with the tube, bridged by Ccomp. In my breadboarded tests, they were the only two whose materials affected the noise figure measurably.

Did some more listening and tube rolling. RCA 12AX7 flattened out the sound a bit. Sounded more like a rebuilt PAS with the tone controls pulled. A GE green print 5751 was silly sparkly.... amazing given it's renowned for being a very dark tube.

Didn't try more, as the cats got playful and wanted to pull the unit with bare-wire-breadboarded HV power supply ontop of themselves =:o

Cheers!

Re: Single Tube PAS* Linestage

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:03 pm
by dannyr
Geek, I have a few questions about this circuit. Does it do well with the stock PAS power supply or is it worthwhile to upgrade that also? What would you recommend the gain be set to with a stock PAS phono stage with Curcio flat RIAA fixes going into a stock ST70 circuit? Finally, if I have to replace the PAS's volume pot what value do you recommend? Thanks.

Re: Single Tube PAS* Linestage

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:26 pm
by Geek
dannyr wrote:Geek, I have a few questions about this circuit. Does it do well with the stock PAS power supply or is it worthwhile to upgrade that also?


It works well with the stock PAS power supply.

The main amplifier stage is a hybrid mu-follower, which has much better PSRR than the stock single-ended amplification stage. The emitter follower stage and gate-reference of the mu-follower is zener regulated.


What would you recommend the gain be set to with a stock PAS phono stage with Curcio flat RIAA fixes going into a stock ST70 circuit?


I persoanally use a gain of 2.5, as it's the point that IMO, the soundstage turns "magical". But it's stellar with a gain of 4 or less.

Higher gains it's good if you need it. Just not fantabulous.


Finally, if I have to replace the PAS's volume pot what value do you recommend?


PEC (Precision Electronics Components) part number KKA1041S28 (for 100K). Digikey # KKA1041S28-ND. These are the same ones rebranded by Alessandro and sold for much more!

Cheers!

Re: Single Tube PAS* Linestage

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:24 pm
by dannyr
Geek, thank you for the detailed reply. I'll be ordering a board soon. Does the balance pot value need to be changed to work with the 100K volume or is it okay to remain it's stock value?

Re: Single Tube PAS* Linestage

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:47 pm
by Geek
100K leads to lower noise and less treble attenuation at lower volumes.

Re: Single Tube PAS* Linestage

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:12 am
by dannyr
Hi Geek, I received the boards for this from you and the quality is top notch. thanks. I have one quick question though. Where does pin 9 of the 9 pin socket go to if anywhere? I'll report back how this ends up.

Re: Single Tube PAS* Linestage

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:20 am
by Geek
Hi,

Pin 9 is unused, unless you want to run a 12AX7 or 5751 from a 6.3V power supply. Then short pins 4 and 5 together and apply the 6.3V to the shorted pins and pin 9.

Cheers!

Re: Single Tube PAS* Linestage

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:34 pm
by dannyr
Thanks Geek. I figured that it was something like that but I asked to be safe.

Re: Single Tube PAS* Linestage

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:35 am
by dannyr
Geek, I completed the board but I'm getting a weak bit distorted channel. I tried swapping tubes but it didn't help. Do you have any hints on where I should look? The working channel sounds great.

Nevermind. I got it. I mixed up a 1k and 100k resistor in the offending channel. Now to get the LED to light up. I

Re: Single Tube PAS* Linestage

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:45 pm
by dannyr
Just a follow up. This line stage sounds great. Very natural and dynamic. I highly recommend it. I just kind of wish that I had a extra transformer around to make one for myself.

Geek, how does this linestage rate against your other offerings?