thoughts on power conditioners...?

[nyazzip]

i have read a few things about the potential ugliness of AC power as it comes from the grid, with variant voltages, "spikes", noise, and other crud. as with all my posts, i know nothing about it- anything i have ever read that is related to electronics becomes too technical after the first paragraph. there is no such thing as "laymans/average joe electronics". pity. but anyway:
i guess my questions are, 1) will "low quality" AC affect hi-fi sound reproduction and 2)will "low quality" AC shorten the life of hi-fi equipment, or 3)both?
the above keyword is "will", as in, "is it probable?"; or, is power conditioning just another something that audiophile dorks with way too much cash obsess over?
is it worthwhile/noticable to spend a few hundred bucks on some entry level power conditioning equipment for a couple of $500 amps? additionally, i do own a couple of single-ended guitar amps too, and i would find it compelling if feeding them a better AC source might quiet them down a bit....
cheers all

[TomMcNally]

power conditioning IS just another something that audiophile dorks with way too much cash obsess over

I added the word IS ... that completes my thoughts on it

[nineno]

Hey - I haven't posted much recently but I thought I'd take a SWAG at answering a few of your questions about powerline conditioners...

I know you weren'tlooking for a technical explaination, but I tried to lay this out so that you understand why many of us would steer you away from buying a power conditioner.

First, AC power from your wall outlets probably is pretty "dirty." Ideally, AC power in North America is 120Volts AC at 60Hertz.

If you could record readings off a digital multimeter once every minute for a month you would certainly see variations in both the voltage and the current, though I suspect that those variations would be less than 5%: The voltage would stay between 114 and 126 volts; the frequency would stay between 57 and 63 Hertz.

However, the base frequency (60Hertz) might have lots of other noise embedded on it. I found a picture that shows this:


If you look at Figure A, that would represent an ideal 60Hz sinusoide without any noise. Figure B would represent the same 60Hz sinusoide (same basic shape) with higher frequency "noise" (the smallersin wave/scribbles that are overlayed) on it. In fact, the higher frequency noise would actually be all along the 60Hz signal, not just at the peaks and vallys. The conditioner would strip off the noise shown in Fig B and output the ideal signal in Fig A.

A very expensive power condition would ensure that your audio/video equipment never sees anything but the "ideal" 120Volts AC at 60Hertz. If you were to buy one of these very expensive devices it would probably do what it says it does: It would accurately regulate the output voltage and frequency.

So, if these things do what they say they do, then why do most of us think they're BS? Because every piece of audio equipment (especially vacuum tube/analog equipment) take the AC power from the wall and immediately converts it to the different voltages that are needed in the equipment as well as converting it to Direct Current (DC) that does not have a frequency component.

The power converter might clean up the power, but a tube amplifier and most every other piece of audio equipment needs to clean it up anyway, so the power conditioner is redundant.

One benifit that the power conditioner might have is that every one of them should have some type of suppression in it for voltage spikes (from lightening strikes or other anomolies). That's the only way that I could think of that a conditioner would prolong the life of equipment. Others on this forum might have more/better insight here.

If you have amps that hummmmm at 60Hz (sound like florecent lights), you can probably cure that with proper wire routing inside the amp or additional shielding of the input wires, etc, etc. Many people on this list can probably help you with that.

My last thought on power conditioners is this: They do in fact do something, but it might not very necessary. However, I have -every once and awhile- found myself looking at the big LED displays that show current draw and input voltage on the front of a fancy Furman conditioner thinking "Gee...that is kinda cool looking."

Hope that helps a little...

[Shannon Parks]

I think a cheap voltage 'regulator' (aka switched multitapped transformer) would solve a lot of problems Americans see. The multi-tapped tranny would make sure you are protected from brown out conditions and high line voltage - both very damaging. Plus it gives you a visual of how your mains is behaving, so it can troubleshoot bad conditions.

[dcriner]

I think a cheap voltage 'regulator' (aka switched multitapped transformer) would solve a lot of problems Americans see. The multi-tapped tranny would make sure you are protected from brown out conditions and high line voltage - both very damaging. Plus it gives you a visual of how your mains is behaving, so it can troubleshoot bad conditions.

Shannon, I don't think low line voltage will damage tube-type electronic equipment. I routinely bring up vintage equipment for the first time on a Variac, starting from zero volts.

In most areas of the U.S., line voltage is regulated reasonably well. The voltage may run a little above 120V or a little below, depending on where along the distribution line you are located, but the voltage should be reasonably consistent.

[Slartibartfast]

In most areas of the U.S., line voltage is regulated reasonably well. The voltage may run a little above 120V or a little below, depending on where along the distribution line you are loecated, but the voltage should be reasonably consistent.

Yeah mine sits at a consistent 121vac. Now if you are the customer of some low rent co-op, you might see some less than usual voltages.

I use to work for this commercial audio company. We were putting in a system at this country church, in the middle of nowhere. The sound was badly distorted and nothing we did would fix it. We talked with someone back at the office and they said, "Oh yeah, check the line voltage. **** said it was a little high." It was over 130vac!!! :o

The church called the power company and they made some changes somewhere, and the sound system worked as expected. Yellow_Light_Colorz_PDT_21

[mesherm]

The most cost effective unit we have in the lab is a Tripplite LC-1200.
It seem to filter out all the "hash" from the many relays, solenoids and electric clutches opening and closing throughout the building. The solenoids and electric clutches are particularly good at knocking out digital data acquisition equipment with huge inductive spikes. It doesn't so much ruin the equipment it's more a case of stopping computer programs and data modules.
Our AC sine wave looks more like a sawtooth with a flat top and Parkinsons. In the electrical lab we used to have a huge 60kv transformer that needed to be fed 60Hz 120 volt power with no more than 1% distortion to do dielectric breakdown testing. We had to buy a special power supply to synthesize 120 VAC at 60 HZ at 0.15% to power it. I think the whole thing is out in the "no longer in use" area.

[EWBrown]

Anything with a switchng mode power supply in it, as well as CFLs, many new LED lighting units, and the ubiquitous light dimmers are among the worst
in-house powerline polluters, I'm in a rural area, and when I first moved in here, first thing I did was to remove all of the light dimmers.
The RF background noise floor was very quiet, and long distance daylight, as well as night-time AM band reception was excellent.

As I added the satellite TV, etc, computers, LED lighting, etc, the noise floor eventually rose quite significantly.
All it takes is a couple hours' power outage to clearly illustratethe RFI difference, these days.

A good powerline filter and spike protector could be useful in areas with bad or noisy AC power distribution.

Here, the incoming AC power is pretty clean, and the voltage varies from 120 to 123 VAC, at most. The AC power feed here
is underground, for at least a half a mile, as is the telephone cabling. We don't have "pole pigs", the step down house transformers are
housed in ground-level "doghouses", and most serve one house only, though some may serve two houses.

/ed B